[Diablo Bastardo]

After discussion with Morgon he has very kindly allowed me to create a poll to gather an idea of what the xbox360 playing community thinks of the current state of xbox live.

So I ask this simple question:

Should players with falsely attained gamerscore be removed from xbox live?

Please take the time to vote in the poll and then write a only a simple Yes or No.

Please avoid writing any lengthy debate, finger pointing or flaming as I would like everybody who has participated and voted in this to email Microsoft with your thoughts either way and a link to this poll for their immediate attention.



Please copy and paste this into your email should you wish to complain:

I (insert gamertag) a player of Xbox360 and Xbox live wish to complain about Xbox Live players with falsely attained gamerscore, and I strongly suggest that you (Microsoft) should have them removed from xbox live.



Please copy and paste this into your email should you wish to defend your position:

I (insert gamertag) DO NOT wish to be banned from xbox live for my falsely attained gamerscore.



Thank you for your time in reading and participating in this poll.

[spider8461]

not sure why you would wanna gamesave anyway....

I wouldn't kick them off xbox live just reset there gamerscore

[quesadia19]

thats stupid as competing with gamerscore...

[spider8461]

thats stupid as competing with gamerscore...

I can understand competing for gamerscore but "cheating" for gamerscore I dont get..........

[Dynamo Matt]

Yes.

Anyone know of any suitable e-mail addresses at Microsoft?

[Alpha309]

Thank your for someone finally doing this, as I am to lazy to do so myself.

Now on to the rules of the original post.

YES

[Raider1987]

Who is it to decide what is illegitimate and what is not? A lot of people would say boosting is cheating as it is not playing 'by the rules'. I have boosted and know its cheating but don't really think it makes me eligible to be banned from live.. Although I have never game saved, account traded or paid someone to hack my gamercard, many people would just consider me ban worthy for boosting. Also, Stallion83 has boosted and most people including myself hold him in very high regard as he has the highest gamescore in the world without gamesaving and he does NOT deserve to be banned just as he has boosted, but some would view that as cheating enough to be banned.

Most people would have the same argument about gamesaving. Back in the PS2 days when I completed san anderas 100% my friends used to lend me there memory cards so I could copy my save to them so they could use all the cars and helicopters. They still took there PS2's online and sony would have no right to cancel there accounts. However I think if when I borrowed there memory card and hacked into it to unlock everything, if sony could have done something to stop me they should have. Obviously gamesaving to boost your gamescore to cheat other people out of the leaderboards is different, as it affects other people. I get a bit miffed when I spend hours slaving at a game for a certain achievement and someone just gamesaves it or gets someone else to do it for them.

So I guess that I am undecided about the whole thing as I think that many people have different Ideas of what is cheating and what is not. However I am open to your guys opinions So I will watch this thread before I cast my vote.

[Alpha309]

Who is it to decide what is illegitimate and what is not? A lot of people would say boosting is cheating as it is not playing 'by the rules'. I have boosted and know its cheating but don't really think it makes me eligible to be banned from live.. Although I have never game saved, account traded or paid someone to hack my gamercard, many people would just consider me ban worthy for boosting. Also, Stallion83 has boosted and most people including myself hold him in very high regard as he has the highest gamescore in the world without gamesaving and he does NOT deserve to be banned just as he has boosted, but some would view that as cheating enough to be banned.

Most people would have the same argument about gamesaving. Back in the PS2 days when I completed san anderas 100% my friends used to lend me there memory cards so I could copy my save to them so they could use all the cars and helicopters. They still took there PS2's online and sony would have no right to cancel there accounts. However I think if when I borrowed there memory card and hacked into it to unlock everything, if sony could have done something to stop me they should have. Obviously gamesaving to boost your gamescore to cheat other people out of the leaderboards is different, as it affects other people. I get a bit miffed when I spend hours slaving at a game for a certain achievement and someone just gamesaves it or gets someone else to do it for them.

So I guess that I am undecided about the whole thing as I think that many people have different Ideas of what is cheating and what is not. However I am open to your guys opinions So I will watch this thread before I cast my vote.

First of all, I think there should be a discussion on this topic in another location, as I don't think that Diablo wanted lengthy discussions here.

Second of all to keep this short, when you boost you do not falsely obtain the achievment. While you do not get it fairly you achieved that score and met the technical requirements of the achievement. Again, slight, but huge difference in the conversation.

[mss1]

If it's gamesaves or hacking then - yes

[NekrowMonger]

For gamesaving/hacking only?: Yes.

Boosting with comrades?: No.

Need an appropriate email address to send to first. Thanks. (IMG:http://forums.mygamercard.net/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Raider1987]

First of all, I think there should be a discussion on this topic in another location, as I don't think that Diablo wanted lengthy discussions here.

Second of all to keep this short, when you boost you do not falsely obtain the achievement. While you do not get it fairly you achieved that score and met the technical requirements of the achievement. Again, slight, but huge difference in the conversation.

I know I was just thinking out loud, I do agree with you though. Just not sure what to vote yet. All I really meant to say was some people class boosting as illegitimately gained gamescore.. so I would defiantly say don't ban those who have boosted. Ban gamesavers.... Unsure, perhaps remove there ill gotten achievements from there account (near impossible) . Ban the hackers, defiantly.

[Morgon]

I'm sure you're all interested in my vote, although it shouldn't come to any surprise:

If you've altered the filesystem of the HDD in any way -- including uploading other people's savefiles, or altered versions of game data -- you've broken the Xbox Live Terms of Service and your account should be terminated per policy.

Similarly, 'sharing' or 'swapping' Xbox Live Accounts is also against Policy, and should be dealt with with immediate account termination.

'Boosting', while a poor means of obtaining Achievements, is more of a personal moral and gaming style issue that Microsoft doesn't need to get involved with. I don't condone it, and would rather see people obtain these the way they were intended, but I can hardly call it 'illegal'.

[JohnKo23]

Just to be clear your talking about permanently banning their gamertag/account from XBL right? (they could still use them but their scores would never leave their 360's?)

I will answer YES, but I don't see this as stopping the problem. Case in point Sufoor. How long did it take him to gain his 200k? He could easily do it again with a different account. Even permanently banning 360's won't stop this, just make it more expensive for them.

Sorry for going beyond your request Diablo. (IMG:http://forums.mygamercard.net/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Alpha309]

just a request, since this has been friendly so far, and the other some posts have been civil. Could a broad topic be posted in regards to this subject or is there a different thread that would be used better if we were to post discussion there?

Sorry again for breaking the rules

[Mr Senzai]

I say no. GameSaving, boosting Clitching and so on are all Cheating to me. No one is worse, than the other.

Besides I dont care how many GamerPoints you have. I Can still kick yo ass in DoA or UMK, and thats is what counts. How good you are. Not how much you cheat or play boring-ass-Games just for GS.

[Big Mase 911]

No

Since there is no real/tangible value with the Gamerscore (you can't use it for anything).

Cheating shouldn't be condoned, but to be banned for 'cheating'* to gain something with no real/tangible value...I think that is a little over the top.

And....IMO, MS is only 'testing the waters' this go around with the Gamerscore, and the true value of Gamerscore won't be realised until the next generation Xbox or Gamercard is released.

* hacking excluded!

[CommanderX]

Yes

Even better if m$ scrapped gamerscore completely.

[NatSciene]

To be honest, since Gamerscore has such little value to players (other than something to boast about), it seems a bit harsh to ban them for cheating for some achievements.

However, anyone who has hacked their Gamercard should be banned, since games now store game progress for each user (shame really, if you have a family for example), I guess gamesaves would have hacked now so they should get banned too. No idea what boosting is, so I won't past judgement on it.

So I'd say, Yes, just one question though, how do they know who's cheated?

~ NatSciene

[xX Majestik Xx]

I'm a bit torn, as a good point is brought up about the score meaning nothing ( and not being able to be used for anything ) so no real "harm" is being done. I see that point, for sure.

I just hate their attitudes, really.....but that doesn't differ much from most people and how I feel, so take that for what it's worth. (IMG:http://forums.mygamercard.net/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) If they did it and went about their business, that'd be fine and I'd never know any different what their score was.....but they come here and on Live! with the attitude that they are owed something. That, I hate.

I say let them play....as I love working these guys with bloated Gamerscores when they come in and point out their score to the room.

As far as "boosting" goes ( and being considered cheating ).....you guys are out of your collective trees. HUGE difference between me saying, "I am going to use X gun to get X kills and then switch off" is a far cry from sending my account info to someone else and having them get me the Achievements. It is also a far cry from filling a room with Friends only and playing anything and wracking up Achievements in the process. Ranked games are garbage, mostly, because people's attitudes suck and that puts a stop to a lot of Achievements right there. My score would be higher if I could bring myself to join a game with a bunch of randoms and deal with that mess while I am trying to relax and enjoy myself.

I do believe that people that glitch and use exploits should have action taken against them. Anyone that lessens the experience for another player through means not intended by the devs is the only true "offense" that can be cited, IMO. That is one really good thing about Halo 3 and it's ability to capture video....hopefully that deters some of the garbage in that game. Video proof of cheating or exploiting glitches is a big step.....hopefully more devs implement this.

Sorry, I am rambling. Done now.

Carry on.....

[Morgon]

But it isn't really about score -- even though it can mean something, look at the Old Spice Challenge. It's a good program, but why do you think they haven't done anything further with it?

However, it's less about score and more about the fact that they're modifying information on the device. By setting an example, you discourage other users from doing things, and in turn, delay or prevent the surfacing of things that WILL directly affect you, such as in-game hacks and exploits. I can guarantee you'll wish you could come back and give your support for this when you can't play a decent game of Halo 3 more than 6 months from release, just like it was with Halo 2.